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Morality is not... by Markuskus555 Morality is not... by Markuskus555
:iconmarkuskus555:

Morality is not... by Markuskus555

/ / ©2012-2015 Markuskus555
When a theist tells me that it's quite impossible for me to have any form of morality, it makes me want to vomit blood. The sheer lack of social understanding necessary to even begin to say this is astounding.
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:iconnutcase9:
Nutcase9 Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2015  Student General Artist
Still not sure where it does come from, but if you're only doing it out of fear you're doing it wrong.
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:iconbrutalityinc:
BrutalityInc Featured By Owner Edited Oct 11, 2014
One of my friends is deeply religious. He believes, and I quote, "Without God to reach for, all that sweat, effort, and thought would be meaningless.".

I respect his view, and he means well. I must disagree, though; my parents are atheists who never cared for belief or worship, my older brother is firmly anti-religious, and I was raised without a shred of faith; and yet despite a lack of religion, we are all living full, meaningful lives, expending sweat, effort and thought in things we think is worthwhile to do. 
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:iconleocooper120515:
LeoCooper120515 Featured By Owner May 14, 2014
Lol MetaKnight964, you are a true idiosyncratic delight xD
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
A person can only have true morality and know what it actually is by reading the bible and being close to God/Jesus. It'a pretty arrogant to believe you can be perfectly moral without any help from a higher power or anyone who thinks differently and is a better person than you.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013
All I get is "Sorry we found no relevant results", just like before.
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:iconderroflcopter:
Derroflcopter Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013
Therefore a man in the sky made the moral standards, and they were always effective, as in the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials.

The origin of morality is quite straightforward; it's the aim to reduce suffering and improve the welfare of human beings. It's 2013. There are naturalistic explanations for why we act the way we do. We don't have to jump to the supernatural anymore.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013
What I said in my reply was meant for someone else. Also I'm tired of people like you playing the crusades, inquisition, and salem witch trials card, the christian civilians in those times were persecuted along with everyone else who defied the crusaders, inquisitors, and witch hunters, not to mention politics played a part. And I know what year it is, don't be condescending. Why we act the way we do doesn't always have a natural explanation. And I also know what morality is meant for, quit telling me things I already know and are universal.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013
I don't care what richard dawkins has to say.

It seems I have a habit of putting off reading and responding to messages/replies.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013  Student Filmographer

Really? Well, speaking as a former priest let's just rattle off what the Bible postures to be righteous subject matter, shall we?

 

 Off the top of my head: Slavery, genocide, human sacrifice, infanticide, violence by proxy, bigotry, racism, chauvinism, sexism, gynocentrism, a rape tax (Duet. 22:28-29), genital mutilation of children, and ultimately the infantilizing of the human race by subjecting them to the immortal sovereignty of a patently sociopathic, sado-fascist patriarch; who, honestly, we don't even know if he's perfect, can't prove it, and so therefor are commanded to just kinduh take his word for it. Truly, the bible is a dynamo of ethical delicacy.

 

 And I'm sure you'll call me rude for ripping your favorite piece of literature a new one, but frankly if manners were really your biggest concern you wouldn't've said something so outrageously insensitive to...oh, just about every culture, creed and philosophy since the dawn of sentient thought. And you wannuh talk about what is and isn't arrogant? What is it with people like you? The bible is the paragon of morality? Really? A hastily thrown together tome soaked in the blood and bigotry of a primitive man, that's the epitome of spiritual literature? Have yuh read it!? 

 

 

 

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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
God never promote those things and destroyed societies (and once the world) that indulged in them. And what piece of literature are you ripping? Where's your proof it's my favorite? Also anyone who gets to know God will know he's perfect. And you were never really a priest if that's how you really see God and the bible which btw says many will depart from the faith.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013  Student Filmographer
Uh, yes it did. You obviously have never, ever read the bible if you don't know that much. And yes I was. That's a laughably asinine conclusion: because I've basically stopped deluding myself that a book rife with real evil is actually of God, I never read or reverenced it? How did you get through school?
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2013
God never did any evil he destroyed evil (when it was at it's worst), case closed. And I actually have read the bible (not all of it and I intend to read more), don't make assumptions to protect your ego. And it's obvious you are deluded and you need to get over it. One more thing, talking down to and looking down on people doesn't do any good which is why I can't take you seriously.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2013  Student Filmographer

 Really, where was he on the whole Devil dilemma the entire bible long? Marketing his wafers at mass as the next cheezits? "at its worst". That's a crock. Mankind's greatest threat, the prince of darkness, and that doesn't strike God as someone he needs to annihilate?

 What about the firstborns of Egypt? Slaughtering infants to prove a point to a petty little man in a funny hat sounds holy to you? How 'bout sociopathic. And The Flood was thousands fold more psychotic. Speaking of child abuse, what's circumcision? Last I checked that was considered abominable in polite society...when it was proposed for little girls. And yet little boys, with a penis with 20 times the nerve endings as a vagina, were subject to this practice; and still are. In modern times where, unlike then, the outcome isn't mostly death from lose of blood.  Or how 'bout the rape tax in Duet. 22:28-29? Or how 'bout the Law of Moses endorsing slavery? Or the 40 years in the wilderness where the children of Israel genocided several nations on its way back to canaan from Egypt? What about creating Man, whom God could never perfect because it would make him a liar ('thou shalt have no other gods before me'); and thusly proved his own evil by Christ's criteria of good: "ye shall know them by their fruits" by basically creating a race of sentient beings that could NEVER be perfected? Any of this ringin' any bells?

"reading" the bible, doesn't mean you've read the bible in its entirety. Front to back. Cover to cover. I'm guessing you, like most, probably stick to the cuddlier stuff in New Testament. Read Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

 You questioned my history as a devout priest based on an asinine criteria and I slapped you around a little. You've been patently absurd in every statement you've made in this comment section; and whatsmore impertinent to every one not of your faith by posturing it to be the fountainhead of spirituality. You've been thoroughly horrible: you're meek pomposity doesn't change that. I'm not talking "down" to you. I'm criticizing you because you're being a self-righteous douche.

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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2013
Talking down to me and resorting to insults and making accusations/assumptions about me, that's why I can't take people like you seriously. And once again God never did anything evil he destroyed (punished in the case of the pharaoh and his servants) evil and nothing you say will change that or convince me otherwise so just give up and move on. 


P.S. I usually don't care enough to read long winded responses and I look for any insults and accusations/assumptions to see if I should take a response seriously or not, in cases like this not.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2013  Student Filmographer

Sooo anybody who subject you to academic condescension you just ignore? Then obviously you just don't care to have any one criticize you unless it's in a sterilized tone coddling your obvious rudeness; because your rudeness is predicated on the pomposity of your faith.

Look you're obviously a jesus troll. I'm not dealing with your manic twaddle anymore unless you're willing to go on my page, my turf, and have this out. Otherwise...stop responding. That's the only reason I'm responding. You won't go away.

 

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(3 Replies)
:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2013  Student Filmographer
It's horrifying to me that the go-to quotes for theists is always Einstein's alleged mentions of malign force based on a lack of good, like darkness is an absence of light. Besides being preposterous on its face, the quote isn't even Einstein. That's a deliberate misconception.

What Einstein did however say is that God is irrelevant as an ethical main stay. He is superfluous.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
You do know Einstein wasn't an atheist?
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013  Student Filmographer

So? He didn't say the guy didn't exist, he just said ethics don't need him to exist. That man has the capacity to reason and therefor no societal paradigm requires God.

 

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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
Ethics came from God, they didn't come out of nowhere. And Einstein didn't actually believe that, please don't use him to strengthen your argument. Also even really smart people are wrong sometimes and make mistakes. You should also know that man has and will continue to do terrible things which is why we need God.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013  Student Filmographer

One of those, huh?

 

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein, The New York Times

 

 I didn't care who said it: it's the truth. I'm not using Einstein's celebrity status to strengthen my argument. Currently, I'm using the cogency dispensed by a  man capable of rational thought to do that. Prior, I said I hate when theists use him to strengthen their flimsy arguments. Then I merely articulated in summary what he said regarding ethical behavior and society. From the quote I've enclosed above. I didn't use Einstein, I just recanted fact.

 

 Please don't bring your god into this. With all respect to whatever you've sacrificed and gained in the observance of your faith, I don't accept arguments based on secular dogma or unverifiable hypothesis; and, please, if you're going to rattle off the old 'well, saying there is no God is claiming omniscience' argument, let me just save you the bother. I don't have to prove the non-existence of something, the absolute lack of observable evidence, to assert it patently does not exist. Rather you, the believer, have to do the opposite: I don't have to prove a negative. That would be chaos.

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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
God isn't mine he's for anyone who seeks him out. Also God (not religion) is needed by anyone who want to change their lives for the better (bad things still happen though).
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:iconlolitheleopard:
LolitheLeopard Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:iconyoumustbenewhereplz::iconsaysplz: Oh, you need the bible to teach you morals? Couldn't figure out murder is wrong by yourself, huh?
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013  Student Filmographer
It's like I always say, "you can lead a jack ass to reason, but you can't make him think."
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:iconlolitheleopard:
LolitheLeopard Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:iconthisplz:
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2013  Student Filmographer
?
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:iconlolitheleopard:
LolitheLeopard Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I thought your comment was funny because sadly it was true. I liked it.
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:iconcodyrush:
codyrush Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2013  Student Filmographer
You can use it if you want.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
That's just it, people often can't figure things out on their own.
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:icon0kidd0:
0kidd0 Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2013
Very beautifully done, I've had this idea come to mind before so I'm glad other people feel the same way.

It's easy for folks to say that if a person is bad they go to hell, or karma comes back to get them. Its like a threat to solve a short-term problem, but in the long-run people become self-centered. Trying to rack up points to achieve salvation, rather than helping to a true moral cause.
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
Bad people do eventually get what;s coming to them.
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:iconx-wanderer-x:
x-Wanderer-x Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2013
Ugh, I've been having an argument over this for a long time now with a theist. It's like he's pushing a gun at me and expecting me to shoot somebody. Empathy is apparently a difficult thing to grasp.

His most recent response was that you need Christ in order to love. :facepalm:
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:iconmetaknight964:
MetaKnight964 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2013
You need Christ/God to strengthen your love. Jsyk I'm not a Christian.
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
It makes you question, sometimes, if there's any point, doesn't it? :(
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:iconx-wanderer-x:
x-Wanderer-x Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2013
Yes, but the prospect of a world in which we have transcended such ignoble and petty beliefs makes it worth the headache. :P
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I saw another one of these kind of images in the past which I believe sums up the perfect argument to make against the whole "non-religious people are immoral", and that is: If you are immoral, you do not lack religion, you lack empathy.

I just thought that might be an interesting two cents to throw into the pile.
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Mar 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Mhm, that's quite cool.

It reminds me of a Facebook comment I once saw that said roughly "You atheists are despicable! If I wasn't a Christian, there'd be nothing to stop me murdering every one of you! So how can you control yourselves without God? The answer is you can't!"
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Mar 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Interesting.
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:iconask-war:
Ask-War Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Artist
There was morality before religion. Even in areas where there isn't religion, they have morals. It may not be what a religion says morals should be, and it may not fit your morals, but they are still morals none the less.
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:iconentelech:
Entelech Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2012
The question is a bit more complicated. While I like your picture, and agree with it 100%, I think that militant, rabid athieists are just as much a problem as militant, rabid theists.

Simply put, it's rude to accost a stranger and tell him that his god-concept (or lack thereof) is wrong and yours is right.

Also, Alain de Botton makes a good case for religions serving a useful role as a social institution, independent from the nonsensical supernatural dogma. In "Religion for Atheists: A Non-believer's Guide to the Uses of Religion" he lays out benefits to society and individual psychological well-being that are historically associated with religious institutions, but not intrinsically linked. He asserts that atheism has thrown the baby out with the bathwater, and that atheism ought to reincorporate certain traditions while still leaving the supernatural woo-woo behind. It's a good read.
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:iconverixas92:
Verixas92 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012
May I link you to a response to this?
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Of course you may!
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:iconverixas92:
Verixas92 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012
Funny, haha, because I was just thinking of this issue "grace, works, and the fear motive" earlier, and now I'm writing an article on it...

I will link you when finished ;)
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you! I've actually been reading some of your posts, and find you quite eloquent. I'm going to add you to my Deviant Watch, and completely stalk you forever. ^^
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:iconverixas92:
Verixas92 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012
Well, I'm flattered! I thought you would regard me as an enemy, since I'm a Christian apologist...bu I'm glad you're friendly ;)

I'm on until about one o' clock, I should have it uploaded then. We're both from the same country, so I was just saying...are you on until then? I'll link you anyway.
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Oh gosh no! No, it doesn't do to have enemies. My posts can be quite heated sometimes, but I'm actually a floppy person with a comfy chair.

I probably won't be on at that time though, so I'll check tomorrow. ^^
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:iconverixas92:
Verixas92 Featured By Owner Aug 10, 2012
Well....here it is!

[link]

Enjoy ;)
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:iconmarkuskus555:
Markuskus555 Featured By Owner Aug 11, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you! I'll read it later today, when I have the time to actually appreciate it properly. :)
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:iconsilverybeast:
silverybeast Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2012   General Artist
It's also annoying when (some) theists say atheists cannot tell what is moral and what immoral because "only God can tell what is morally acceptable."

Hello, what's the moral in doing something because you're told to do so - on the opposite of thinking yourself, empathizing, and taking other people in count.

Not beating up random people because your religion forbids it isn't moral. You're just following orders, not caring about other people. Not beating up random people because you realize it harms those people is moral.

Theists, even though your religion would be a "good" one, think yourselves, don't be mindless sheep.
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Amen to that.

I love Irony. Can you tell?
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